Discussion of "October Chill: Devil's Night (5)" by writerwannabe

Vote: 5

Excellent integration of research and imagination! You expand on the Bible verse and add to it (perfect addition). You emphasize the sinister nature of the quotation and leave a lot of ambiguity. Is the preacher the vessel made unto dishonor, or is Rand? Is the preacher sent to punish sinners? Or perhaps to redeem them? Maybe he's not a bad guy after all...

I chose the name Rand because it's Scottish, and with the Druidic origins of Halloween, I thought it would have implications for the protagonist's ancestry. (You read my mind!)

Now, I must admit, I googled "Wineas Randolph" to see if you actually found that story or made it up. I take it to be the latter, although I didn't look all that hard. Point being, it has verisimilitude out the proverbial wazoo! (Now there's a sentence that would be hard to say out loud with a straight face...)

Anyway, this chapter adds a lot of depth to the story and gives the next writer a fun springboard.

Another thing you did well- you did a good job of trying to keep the style consistent. While it's clear that there are different writers working on this, the style doesn't change enough to be distracting. That's something I think everyone on this storyline has done well.

One thing I think could have been an improvement... This is a story about a guy dealing with loss, and doing so well at it. Dogdeity made the bold move of having the family not just dead, but brutally murdered! Your continuation here adds a lot to the story, as I said before, but it's missing one thing- a connection to the main theme/plot.

The "vessel made unto dishonor" could be the murderers. Rand might wonder if he's supposed to destroy them, seek revenge, if that's the preacher's message. Or maybe the family was murdered ("sacrificed") in a Druidic ritual? Maybe he hopes that the preacher could magically put his family back together like the clay bowl?

Everything you have in this chapter is great, and I do think it warrants a five, since the next person can always take what you've written and make the connection back to the theme.
I'm not trying to find fault, just kinda tossing around ideas.

Thank you, Raven...wonderful comments (and not only because they were laudatory). I can't believe I really consciously did all of that..lol
Seriously, I really liked the way you used the bible verse in the previous chapter and wanted (desperately?) to expound on that and a little research showed me the way. Wineas Randolph, though is pure fiction, as you guessed. The only thing missing...yep, the link back to the main theme/plot. Psycho is up next and I hope he reads your comments before writing as I'm sure it will give him some ideas. I mentioned in an earlier comment, on another storyline, that I thought some of the stories are moving too fast. That's one of the reasons that I didn't attempt to make a link between the death of Rand's family and what he's discovered. It's too soon, I think. Probably the next chapter is too soon, as well. I'm thinking..but, of course, it's up to the last four writer's, that that link shouldn't appear until chapter 7. That will give the last two writers plenty of time to tie it all up and win the war!! lol.

Yep, it's too soon for the actual connection to be revealed. I'm thinking there should be a mental connection right about now, though. In the very first chapter, the preacher asked about the dead family. So the connection was made. The main character should be considering everything in that context. He should be pondering what the connection will be. It's a matter of keeping perspective, making sure the story is seen through the eyes of the character. In movies and TV, it's really hard to do that, but scrip writers know it's important, so they try. They'll usually rely on using telling shots where the camera zooms in on something (like the magically restored bowl, or a picture of the wife and kids, the guy's wedding ring, etc. in this story).

It's kind of like the Amish man in the other chapter of yours- I thought it was a little odd that he didn't react more strongly to the Pagan god idea, that he didn't interpret it in the context of his faith. It's the same thing here; it seems a little strange that Dez Rand doesn't try to interpret the preacher's "miracle", and his google findings, in the context of his tragedy and what he saw with the kids appearing on Halloween.

I think what it comes down to is that we all have buttons to push. I knew this Baptist girl in junior high and she reacted very strongly to anything she considered against her religion. Taro cards? Bad! (That's a whole story in and of itself...) Evolution? Evil! Her spiritual buttons were easily accessed. Anything mystical outside the context of her faith called the "that's evil" sub function, and it just kept running.

Now, I think seeing your own kids raised from the dead would push anyone's buttons. So the "what the hell is going on with my dead relatives" function should be running in the foreground, and it should be creating pop-up windows left and right. (Yes, my husband and I really do talk this way. We're geeks. It's in our main functions.)
You're a good writer as-is, don't get me wrong. But I think the recurring weakness I see is a lack of attention to your protagonist's mental processes. You might try getting "in character" when you write :) Some people, like dogdeity, seem to do it naturally. Honeygloom does it well, not sure if she does it with or without trying. But I don't see why it can't be a conscious activity rather than an automatic one.

Since it feels arrogant to say "your weakness is..." let me add this-
your strength is the ability to seamlessly meld real history, mythology, etc. and your own ideas. Not only that, but creating a plot that's as interesting as the ideas themselves. That's rare. A good premise and plot can keep a reader interested regardless of style issues. I only offer critique for one reason-

When you get that "it's not right" feeling, I want you to have some ideas as to why "it's not right". That way you can produce writing you truly feel is optimal.

Wow you have some imagination! Awesome continuation, bringing the Druids in was a stroke of pure genius!

Thanks, Honeygloom!!

Ok... religion is one of those misunderstood entities in life... I thought the chapter was excellent... but... here's where the religious debate comes into play...
I am of Irish/Scottish descent... my ancestry was highly involved in the Druidic faith, and nearly destroyed by the arrogance of Christianity... The Christian sect/cult created the strories of human sacrifice as a way to get all other religions to denounce the relgious rites of the Druids. St. Patrick, a Christian crusader, in an effort to convert druids was known to toss babies over cliffs if the Druidic elders refused conversion. Now who sounds like the more likely to commit human sacrifice? I understand that this is a work of fiction... I understand that traditional beliefs lie in everyone's minds, butpassages and ideas such as Druids being sacrificial worshippers only fuels the fires... the Bible states that God demanded the blood of animals for sacrifice, but in fact, the sacrificed animals were a ceremonial rite that allowed the poor to partake in the consumption of meat that they normally would not have access to... Religious study is a pasion of mine and normally I try to stay away from it in my writings because of all the misconceptions that exist about so many of them... most of the misconceptions about non-Christian religions was actually created by Christians... The word Pagan is an example... The wrod Pagan , actually, in the ancient Greek language where it came from, means peasant/farmer... so all the "Pagan" religions are "peasant" religions... the reason they were labeled pagan religions is because the farmers held onto the worship of fertility gods/goddesses long after the worship of such was denounced by the city dwellers that were discovering the new religions coming in... such as Christianity....

Sorry for the history lesson here, but I am now trying to figure out how to continue this story... it will take some thought and time to put it together without letting my own personal beliefs and feelings interfere...

Anyway... I gave this a 5 because it was brilliantly written and weel organized, as always...

In no way was I trying to be rude, btw, it's just that there are some things that I get fired up about and of of them happens to be religious ignorance and intolerance... not that I am accusing you of either here, but I get carried away sometimes. I have spent years studying many different religions from the scholarly POV... I feel that in order to believe in or denounce something, you have to spend some time to understand it first.

Psycho - sorry if I stepped on your toes. If so, it was definitely unintentional and, as you noted yourself...this IS fiction. I, too, am a student of religious history. In fact, I am writing a novel that, although a fiction thriller, is based on religious facts and, well...pretty much blows all of the "big 3" out of the water!
In another OC storyline I invented a Druidic demon...did you not see that? Not that I'm picking on the Celts or Druids, they just happen to lend themselves to the OC story because of the Scottish connection made in the original chapter.
A suggestion for you chapter? Have the preacher mock Rand for faulty research and move it in another direction....;o)

LOL... well, you didn't step on my toes, it's just that whenever I see a reference to Druids as being evil, human sacrificing monsters... (not pointing fingers here)... I get kind of bitchy... I think of all the lives lost during the Inquisition, the crusades, and all of the other murderous massacres of innocents by the Christian sect and I wonder why is it that no one ever refers to the demonic Christian machine in the same light that they paint everyone else? No religion in history has murdered more innocents than the Christians, yet they get painted as gold while small, nearly annihilated sects get tarnished... Christianity just pisses me off... and the funny thing is, I can quote the Bible more accurately than most ministers and preachers... go figure...

My two cents - Christian and Catholic are two completely dichotomous words, thoughts, and beliefs. Catholics cannot be anything else but Catholic. The Pope rules and they do what he says, even if it means killing someone for their beliefs. It happened. It's a fact. The political machine of Rome dictated its policy and it was carried out brutally. This machine is in no way indicative of Christianity. It was not sanctioned by Christians. It was sanctioned by Catholics because they recognize the Pope as God's authority. Christians do not. Christians who did not submit to Papal authority were also killed.

So, in conclusion, I submit to you that your anger is justified, your disbelief is understood, your faithlessness toward Jesus is natural given the circumstances of what you perceive to be Christianity. But it is exactly your perception that is grounded in the same untruth that caused the Inquisition and the Crusades. The Catholic church is not the church. Catholic does not mean Christian.

Excellent chapter, Lex. Can't wait for the book!

While this is true, until Martin Luther came along and started forming Protestant churches, Catholicism was the main force behind the Christian machine... Then comes the Church of England and so on and so on and so forth... Catholicism is rooted in Christianity and vice versa... I never meant to turn this into a religious debate, but I can truly argue this subject for days... "True" Christianity is nothing more than a mystic hippie look at ancient Judeism, taking the old testamnet and adding peace and love to all, when the old testament clearly says destroy all that oppose and think differently... If one truly looks at the words before them, they see a policy laid out for intolerance and annihilation, which the ancients truly took to heart... Nevermind all the metaphors and rhetoric that people today believe to be fact, such as a burning bush speaking...(clearly a metaphor), but the fact that every book of the old testament talks about invading, enslaving, killing, and raping... not in those words, but still, the idea is there... one verse says, "kill all the men, enslave the children, and take the women as your own to do with as ye please..." Come on, now... that's not a machine of pure evil in the guise of righteousness?

Hooboy. I could go toe-to-toe with you, Psycho, but this is neither the time nor the forum. Let's quelch this before it gets ugly, shall we?

(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

Hey, new here and loving this storyline. While I liked the information that was revealed in this chapter, I thought it was a bit too expository. It removed the possibility to have this information brought to the character's knowledge in a more interesting way. It also seemed very abrupt the way the paced of this chapter was so quick. Someone before described the pace of this story as "toe-tapping". I think that's really appropriate. It would have been nice to see more of an unraveling than a revelation. Criticism aside, you are a very talented writer.

Thanks all and welcome to SM, portionsforfoxes!
The "toe-tapping" comment was in reference to only one of the chapters (and I don't remember which storyline it was). Mostly, though, all of the October Chill chapters are pretty fast paced with more plot twists and turns than a slinky (oops, dated myself again...lol).

Thanks for the welcome! As soon as you said that I realized that I had read that in a different storyline. Thanks again.

As far as the religion debate goes, I want to add that WWB did something very well here; note that while he did rely in Pagan stereotypes, he also pointed out issues with the Old Testament. In fact, he interpreted the passages he cites in a very sinister way. The "preacher" character is, at this point, looking like the antagonist in this story, and yet he is a supposed "Christian".

It's true that there are people even today who call themselves Pagan and don't need any bad PR. But WWB made it pretty clear that he isn't singling out Pagans any more than he is Jews or Christians.

Keep in mind, the following excerpt refers to the Bible, not the Druid history:

"“So,” I thought, “God makes certain people; people who are sinners and unless they repent their sins, he has them programmed for destruction!” I knew there was a reason I could never get behind faith and religion. What kind of crap was this?"

Now, Psycho, if you're reading... keep in mind that the preacher may be an evil entity not tied to any real religion, modern or ancient. He could well be using folklore and scripture and misconceptions to create chaos... You can definitely take this story in a direction that doesn't paint any religion in a negative light. In fact, you could use this chapter as a springboard to introduce more historical facts on Druids, if you wanted to! You could have the main character use some sort of Druid magic to fight the preacher and send him back to whatever Plutonian fantasy world he came from :) Just tossing out ideas! I'm sure you'll think of something great!

Raven, thanks for your comments and support. Whew!! If I'd have known this little ol' chapter would've generated so much discussion...I'd...I'd have made it longer...lol.
I've never had this many comments before, that's for sure. If my novel turns out half good and generates this kind of discussion...well...can I get an "Amen, brother?" lmao.
Just one teensy tiny thing more...all this discussion but only 6 votes and I'm still below 4.5. I mean....geesh! ;o)

It's all good.. I know that Lex wasn't attacking any religions... I noted that in previous comments... I just find religious angles difficult to be objective, so I passed on this chapter and subbed it out... I wasn't trying to offend anyone, as Lex wasn't trying either... to tell the truth, I really am not offended, was just pointing out something that caught my attention... much like the mis-pronunciation of Boston's basketball team... that one actually pisses me off though... Like I said, the chapter is brilliantly written and true to form... I thought things through, mulled them over, and tried to find a direction to take this, but my subconscious mind is programmed to break down religion and expose the evils of blind faith and the worship of legends... not just in Christianity, but in all religions... my personal view is of existentialism... self faith in one's own ability...

Kevin:

I, for one, do not want you to be objective - I prefer your creativity. I apologize for my feeble attempt at apologetics and as Jim said, it wasn't the forum. Sorry, Kevin. I love your writing and really wish you'd reconsider. I personally plan on blowing the **** out of a church in a future installment. :-)

Bill

Amen- existentialists rock! Kirkegaard, Nietzsche, Doestevsky... Warren Buffet (he may be a stock investor, but he's still pretty darn existential).

wow...comments almost longer than the chapter. I think its great that this sparked such a debate. I will keep my nose out of it and just leave it at the fact that I loved this chapter.
Great work WWB!