Discussion of "Amanda" by wendyboop

Ah - poor kiddo. Will be interesting to see which direction you take this story.

That's good and unfortunately very realistic for some kids. There was very good syntax and flow with it and I want to know what will happen next. But on a side not, what six year old eats pickle relish, haha?

Now I feel guilty for making such a big deal out of the house work I have to do. That said, I think I'll go do some laundry.

Expertly crafted piece here. Evokes emotion, provides real interaction, demonstrates a believable view inside her six-year-old mind. (I have a five-year-old at home, and I'm not sure he'd string together his thoughts so logically, but Amanda's age still feels feasible.) Reminded me of Cinderella, sans the stepsisters.

My only difficulty is I'm waiting for an inciting event. The characters and setting are brilliantly set, but - you've got a beautiful car with a key in the ignition that hasn't turned. Would've loved to hear the engine and see it out on the road more.

(3.5)

I hear ya...I had the next step in mind (turning the key so to speak), but was a little chicken to write it since the heroin is a little girl.

In the event this wasn't simply written as a contest entry (or if it doesn't win), I'd be interested reading further in future chapters. I like your style.

No, it was the beginning of something else. I tend to start writing books, then either get stuck, get bored, or come up with a new idea and stop after a chapter or two. This one is all I had so far. The other one I have on here (Special) I actually have 2 chapters on, but only one posted. I also have a third one I am working on, but have not posted a chapter yet.

Thanks! Have you read my other submission (Special)?

Nicely written, if just a little short on plot. You have a real talent, Wendy, and I'll be following your entries with great interest.

wolfman, you made me "awwww", lol
thanks!

I've got mixed emotional responses to this. The writing itself is excellent. I found the beginning funny - returning the bad milk to the fridge so that mom would know they needed more ;) I never found that tactic to work.

The next part drew a new set of personal reactions - my ex's daughter was the same age a co-sleeper. She drove me crazy in the middle of the night. But, then, the story turned darker and ... wow.

I have a problem with the narration. As I have said to so many this round, narrators can't possibly know the feelings and thoughts of the characters...they just state the facts.

That being said, a first person pov would have lended a great deal to the story. Especially since you switched it up to the 1st person pov at the end, momentarily.

I like that the child feels grown up at such a young age....abuse and neglect tend to have a huge affect on even the youngest of shildren...especially single and oldest children.

However, I do not see a major conflict edging the story forward. The child's plight is obviously a harsh and realistic one, but where do we read into this? Where do we take it from here? Do we just continue on with the neglect? What are we resolving?

It needs some work, some insight and a little more length. I give it a 2.0

A 2 again? I guess its because hers is right before yours, huh? Gotta vote her down!

vote me any way you like. I am not in this contest. even if I were, I would appreciate your true feelings rather than your panderings.

LALALYRIC:

I assume I know you and you came in here at my request to read my stories and was trying to defend me. I appreciate the thought, but this has gone a little too far. If you are from myspace, send me a message and let me know. Regardless, please let me try to be a little more mature and accept all critisism whether I agree with it or not. Thank you.

And if I don't know you, please do not feel like you need to defend me. Take all that energy and write the next chapter!

Persephonie, I noticed that you have been critical of third person narration that contains feelings and thoughts of the characters, but I'm not sure why. Unless I'm mistaken, third person omniscient is a valid POV for a story, in which the narrator describes thoughts and feelings of the characters. This is in contrast to third person limited where the description is just the facts that an outsider would be able to observe. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.

You are right Wolfman - trust me, I was an English major. She voted me as a two on my other story as well, which was first person perspective. I just don't think she appreciates my writing style.

Lala - I am sure she just doesn't like my writing, which is fine since everyone is entitled to their opinion. And at least she had the guts to tell me she voted me a two.

Persephonie - A two really? I can respect that you don't see the climactic build up (as this is only the first chapter of something I was writing before this contest), but I think it definitely deserved more than a two even if you couldn't relate. I saw some of the ratings you have given others, and it does appear you are picking on my stories a little more. I read your story and voted you quite highly because the story was good, despite your narration mistakes. But regardless, I respect your right to vote how you see fit.

You are absolutely right! I have been meaning to point this out too. Both omniscient and limited narrators are valid. What a boring place the world of fiction would be with only first person POV:) I for one can’t really write in first person, it just feels awkward. Omniscient narrators are not really popular with modern writers since using the limited narrator to craft a well written story takes more finesse. But that view doesn’t make the third person omniscient any less valid. And for the record, I didn’t think this story had an omniscient narrator…

I can't find where I switched to 1st person POV? Can you point that out, because I would like to fix it for my book I am working on...

“****, Amanda. Do you have to do that **** now?” Mother slowly sat up on the couch, but started moaning and placed her hands on either side of her head. “****!

This scene is obviously from the point of view from the daughter....I don't believe the narrator would have called her "mother".

Yes, I stand by my score of 2. I use the judging guidelines given in the last contest....and this does not met the criteria of "perfect as is, ready to publish". As I mentioned before, we need more history and more writing....expand upon it. As for likability, I was not drawn into the character's dilemma, although I can certainley empathise. Experiencing emotion palys a huge role in what I like. I want to feel what she's feeling...not just be told what's going on. If you are going to give me feelings, then the 1st person pov is easier to convey it in and makes the storyline more personal. Draw me in.

Wolf.... Yes, there are different types of 3rd person pov writing styles. But no one has a firm grip in one or the other. they seem to change it up with little errors here and there, and that's why I comment the way I do.

How many emails do you get of cute baby pics? Which ones do you "oooo" and "aaaawwww" over? All of them, or the ones where the photography and theme is unique?

Sure, everyone has good ideas and good intentions. What I look for in what I read is an exceptional quality and plot.

perfect as is, ready to publish is not in this contest, and even if it were, that would be a 5....not asking for a perfect, just a fair score...

and calling the mother character Mother is not from the point of view of the child - what child calls their mom Mother?? in my original story after this part, we never see the mother again.

and lastly, name ONE book where you can completely get drawn into the character in the first short chapter??? thats because you have to get to know the character, which cannot be done in one chapter.

"Mother" in this passage reads as name - the writer could very well have written "Shelly slowly sat up," which would have sent the exact same message. "Mother" doesn't make this 1st person, "My mother got up," would though.

Good, thanks!

If it had said, her mother got up, I can see that coming from the 3rd person pov.

Mother got up, inferes the child was reflecting on the action....unless the narrator is another child of the same parent....does that make sense?

I liked the way you portray the darker side of a reality that does unfortunately exist. The best of intensions are often fraught with disappointment. I believe Amanda feels this...

This is sad but well writeen.

lets hope that isn't the only reason, lol...

I was in 3th and 6th place when I invited friends to come read my work...so I must have done at least something right...

thanks for your comment!

I like the detached POV you use in this piece. I can imagine how Amanda feels, given her situation it isn’t hard, but her actions show a very deliberate and resilient little girl. For example, she doesn’t have clean socks, so she goes without. She could have worn dirty ones, or gone without shoes entirely, but choosing to wear shoes without socks (thereby keeping her feet clean) shows that she has some sense of dignity. You definitely crafted a well written piece, but it was so short. I wanted to see what happened when her mother woke up. You loaded the gun and didn’t shoot it... shame on you;) I really enjoyed this and I hope to read more!

That is because in my version of how the story goes on, Amanda will not be there when her mother wakes up....but I didn't want to contaminate it in case someone else wanted to continue it...

I did cut it off too short though...but it is a short first chapter in a book I am writing.

Appreciate the comments though!

I promise to write a second chapter on this that is a little more indepth if this one makes it (if it doesn't make it, is it still on the site somewhere where I can add to it?). Though I don't think most of you will like the direction I am taking it (I am a bit twisted, lol).

>:)
WEG....LOL

no, thats a stupd game. I don't want any more apps.

I'm trying to read the top entries to the contest.

You've done a great job of setting the scene here: I'm drawn in to this vivid (if depressing) place that Amanda inhabits. At this point, it seems most like a character study, but we'll just have to see where you take it. I would like to get a better idea of what Amanda feels (rather than just what she knows) about her situation (you go into it once - when she spreads out on the bed and decides she would give her own daughter her own bed).

Here are some nitpicky comments. I haven't read through all your comments (did notice the Persephonie vs third person omniscient war - huh?) so I'm sorry if this is all repeats:

*food money stamps* is an awkward wording, IMO. It sounds like you're trying to get around using the phrase "food stamps", possibly out of a concern than Amanda wouldn't know their proper name. If this story is set in the present, food stamps are actually a card (like a credit card). I would go with either "food money" or "food stamps".

*drunk alone and fell asleep* should be "fallen".

*She had stretched out in the middle of the bed* should be "she stretched" since it is in the story's present.

"in their worn shabby condition" I would go with one of these words instead of both since they mean basically the same thing (and "despite" rather than "in")

gah. I hate that this comes out as a big lump. I even put html tags in it to break it up. Fail.

all valid points....

you caught me on a couple, except the one that was intentional (the food stamps thing)...

since this is written in past tense and she is reflecting to the prior night, wouldn't it be correct to say "She had stretched out in the middle of the bed"....as the way you have it would put it in her present past tense (lol, if that makes sense)

I think I got confused there for a moment - the fell/fallen is the wrong tense, the had stretched is the right tense.

I could have sworn I commented on this already, but I guess I just voted and neglected to comment. (I gave you a 4, by the way - could've been a 4.5 if the story had started to go somewhere specific, but that's already been discussed to death here.) I thought it was very good overall, and would love to read more.

As for the POV stuff - I was really wondering where all that came from when I was reading the comments on Shadinah's piece! So here's where the fuss started... Try checking out this article for clarification:
http://www.gabwhacker.com/xwp/bluequill/pov3.asp
Third person point of view is not necessarily omniscient, and someone else talked about limited where the narrator only describes what can be seen, but there's also one in between - a single POV narration. There's a good example of that in this article. Usually when people gripe about narration, it relates to omniscient style, in which the narrator apparently knows EVERYONE'S thoughts and inner motivations. This method is largely frowned upon in the writing community for exactly the reason Persephonie pointed out - how could this person know everything? What is this, from God's POV or something? Ha. But the single POV narration, like wendy used in this chapter, shows us the thoughts, feelings, motives, and whatnot from one single character. This is a good compromise between the annoyingness of omniscient narration and the limited nature of first person (as in, when writing from the first person, you can't write any 'meanwhile, on the other side of town' type scenes - meaning that if you want something to happen where your protagonist is not present, someone else has to tell the protagonist about it in dialogue or something, and that can be just plain annoying. Either that, or the story has to switch between first person POV and limited narration 3rd person, and that can be confusing to the reader.)
Hope this helps! Oh, and btw, modern conventions of what people prefer are not necessarily the be-all, end-all of things. Go read Tolkien and watch what he does with POV - if he were putting it out there brand new right now, people would be all over him and calling it horrible because his POV work jumps all over the place! So even if you prefer a certain style, first person, third person, or anything in between, keep an open mind.

I felt sorry for the little girl and wished that DFS would come and take her away and put in a nice foster home or with another more loving family member, maybe the child's father. Too bad no one else added to the story. Any story that can pull me like this makes me want to read more.

PS, I called my mother "Mother" my whole life. I've known other's who do also. It worked for me.

Terrific beginning. I'm caught by the sweet narrative voice you use, and I automatically adore Amanda. Great job for accomplishing this within the first couple of paragraphs!

Your chapter is pretty short, however, and I'm wondering why we're following Amanda on this particular day. What makes it so special?

Your characterization is great, but the plot needs movement.

Good job!