Collaborative Creative Writing Community

I am taking part for the first time, so where do I send my entry?
Thanks for the contest.

In order to take part in this contest, simply publish a chapter that begins a story. You can do this by clicking on "New Story" in the right hand list.

If your chapter is one of the top ten ranked chapters, then it will be eligible for the contest.

Thanks!

We have to tie it all up in five chapters???

Sure do! :)

I like the additional rules for judging. What I would like to see is something a little more fair for the pre-judging though. I see a lot of people complaining about the way their scores jump around without concrete reason. Also, people who get their story in at the last minute don't seem to have much of an oportunity to be fairly added into the mix.

Do you have any suggestions as far as how we can alter the rules for pre-judge mode?

I've been trying to come up with an idea to make pre-judging more fair - and I really can't come up with a solution. I'm thinking one of the biggest problems is that scores can be given out regardless of whether or not the story has been read. This creates the problem of "retaliation" scoring - and there is no way for the "retaliator" to know if they are hitting the right person... and the maturity level drops for everyone.
Perhaps if the SM team is able to track the individual history of voting in order to find "pattern voting"... But that's sounding like a lot of work...

I liked Aggeloi's suggestion of having "I recommend" tab or button - and the top ten "I recommended" stories would then be considered, regardless of their rank. That way, a 4.2 score would not be as easily sabotaged by someone's immature .5 rank. Someone might still come by and score it a .5, but if 8 people have "recommended" it, that would still show that 8 people think it's worth being in the contest.

And a moment of self-promotion: I would appreciate people looking at "Ban of Beef" by myself over the next few days and adding constructive comments and a vote. (I only hope that my self-promotion doesn't backfire on me!)

I'm with you--I think the "I recommend" idea is terrific. Unfortunately, it won't be able to go into affect for this particular contest, but it's definitely something that we can consider for future contests.

after judging week, then the author name could be put on their chap., forgot that part of the idea. Maybe only the judges could know ident, but don't know how that would work, then maybe not, would help with "fair" judging!! lol

I think things could be a little more unbiased if when the chapters are being considered that only a number system be used instead of identities. The numbers could be in order of publishing. That way the only way you'd know the author is by style, or if they tell you that they wrote which chap. I know it isn't perfect, and wouldn't help the ones that submit on the last day, but it would help stop the "getting back" thing that seems to be a big concern. Hope this can be a useful idea.

That's a really good idea! That way the authors would be completely anonymous and the chapters would be voted on by merit alone (hopefully)

INteresting, sounds like fun.

There's no word limit ?

The same word/character limit that applies whenever you write a regular chapter applies here.

You mean you allow random ranking of chapters where anyone can come on a whim and rank someone's creation down just because they had a bad day or their nickname reminds them of something negative perhaps, I mean is this the principle behind it ?

Cheers .

UE~
These rules, as far as pre-judge ranking goes, are identical to those that we used for the fifth contest. We're definitely open to suggestions of how to improve this. However, please keep in mind that there are only a few judges who are doing this voluntarily. It wouldn't be right for us to ask them to read all of the entries, especially when there can be A LOT of them.

Happy writing!

I agree that the 'top 10' ranking could cause problems - as either unscrupulous individuals could rank other stories down for the sole purpose of eliminating competition, or, as hebe pointed out, people who get in at the last minute wouldn't have much of a chance, wether the work is any good or not. Is there some other way to work that system? (I just had a thought - what if there was a separate system by which members could 'recommend' chapters? Like a single button near the stars that could be clicked on, and there would be one more score to show how many times the chapter had been 'recommended'. Since there would be no 'I don't recommend' or 'thumbs down' to counter it, there's no way some jerk could ruin a bunch of honest ratings with one bad rating - either a member recommends it, or not. That would be more fair for things like this - the top 10 recommended chapters would be the ones the judges are required to look at. What do you think?)

On a somewhat related note, will a blog entry be posted with the results of last contest's 10th round? Yes, we all know Wolfram smoked us :-) but I'm sure I'm not the only one curious as to how the scoring played out.

Thanks!

Yes. Unbiased ranking can only occur in a perfect world and this one is far from it . To avoid problems, I'd really suggest changing this system .

Your idea about recommending chapters is good. I'll pass that on to the SM team.

WE are definitely open to suggestions. There just hasn't been a better way to do this so far.

Let me know what you come up with!

So if my draft is Oct 21 its fine then .

Yes-you have until October 31st UTC to submit a chapter for the first round.

All right, I'm new, I haven't done one of these contests before.

How do we designate that a new story is for this contest?

All chapters that are published between 10/20 UTC and 10/31 UTC are automatically entered into the contest. The top ten ranked chapters are then read by the judges.

Good luck!

I realize this may be counterproductive, as it's just as easy to vote me down as anyone else, but I think there _should_ be an advantage to publishing early. Want more votes? Give your story more chances to be seen. That doesn't prevent sabotage because someone once had a miserable experience in Nashville (or got peeved at my comments), but within the confines of the contest, I'd say that's fair. There's nothing stopping you from creating multiple logins at others' computers and voting yourself 5s a dozen times. There are plenty of ways to cheat. The best we can do is uphold our own, self-perpetuated honor system.

I've always been a proponent of transparency in voting, so if you want to put your money where your mouth is, announce your votes when you make them. Preferably backed up with appropriate comments. Think something's worth a 2? Say why. Think it's worth all 5? Justify it. I don't vote on much, but for those I do, I will always include it at the end of my comment. Sometimes that leaves me open for retaliation, sure. I'm willing to risk that.

Good luck to all in the contest. May the ten entries of the best quality reach the judging round. And if yours requires extra time to reach that level, better off starting on it now.

-- Nash

Thanks for the feedback, Nash!

What's this ''submit to reddit'' button about ?

If you click on the "submit to reddit" button, then you will be flagging that webpage so that those who use reddit.com see it as a recommended site. It's a social networking site, like Stumble Upon.

I'm sorry but this is some sort of travesty going on here . Yes, people can log on with multiple accounts and vote as they wish . You do not need exposure, what for , people fixate on a specific chapter anyway, usually the one with most comments, and the rest is simply left alone . However you decide to put it, these are the facts . The bottom line is : that's immature and please feel the ''incognito power'' and downgrade my comment now if you really want to. Facts will not change because of it and you know it all to well.

UE~
I do wish that you had given me a chance to respond to your comments before proclaiming that "This is sickening . I thought this site was different but now it is apparent you are just the same . Good riddance and goodbye."

As I said before, we are absolutely open for any suggestions about how we can improve this contest. However, there are only a few of us on the SM team, so that's something to keep in mind.

I certainly hope that you will stay active here at SM, but I will respect your wishes if you decide to move on.

Thank you.

Oh, Dwayne--let's approach this contest with a fresh slate, shall we?

damn nash you got me.
Ok I will katrina.

:)

Fact I have never voted on a comment. If yours goes into negative scores, it's not because of me.

Fact: I have always showed the vote when I vote. I practice what I preach. If you choose not to, that's your business. But please don't "karma" me; that's a load of crap.

Fact: I have one login. Never used another.

Fact: I didn't log on yesterday. If something happened to you, Dwayne, whatever that may be, I don't know what it is. Though I've read some of your other work, I haven't voted on anything you've written besides the one round of TSNK.

UE: Yes, there are a variety of ways to cheat. I listed the ones I thought of in an email to Katrina months ago. I don't cheat. If you don't like the system, go. Please. There are plenty of writer's sites on the internet. If StoryMash doesn't meet your needs, find one that does.

I hate this atmosphere of petty bickering and bitterness. I don't know if it's because this is an election year that people feel the need to spout off and accuse, but if that's the case, I can't wait for this season to be over. It's annoying. It's immature. It's unnecessary.

If you don't like the structure of the contests, don't participate. If you don't like team sports, stick to tennis or golf. I do trust people on here are generally nice, UE, and I've not lashed out at you. But I have read several of your comments that demonstrate your unhappiness with the site. You've threatened to leave on more than one occasion. Yet you continue returning to complain. I respect your entry on how you would run a contest. I'd have my own set of rules and guidelines if I set one up too. But it's not my site.

I've endured torpedo votes, **** accusations, whining that my perspective is unfair and cruel. Okay. They'll continue. I held first place in earlier contests only to see my score crashed anonymously. That sucked. I'd love it if there was transparency in voting. But there isn't, yet, and I don't know that there ever will be. Fine.

Please. Stop. Bitching. You're all welcome to think I'm a pompass windbag ****, but at least I'm an honest one. While that eliminates any hope for me in politics, the contests are still up for grabs.

I'm nashvillebecker and while I approve this message, I regret ever feeling the need to write it.

Well said.

My comment was not personal , NB . I do not even know you . I would never make my comments personal . Your comment holds water nonetheless . I usually abstain from ''bitching'' , believe me . I get pissed at it big time . Sometimes, however, I think it is vital to point out various flaws . This is why I suggested an alternative . I guess my reply seemed as if it was meant for you - not at all . I apologize for confusion . I have no quarrel with you here , nor with anyone else, even if it appears that way . I said what I wanted to say . I will not bother any of you anymore .

Based on my experience here with my TSNK entries and my own chapters, I think relying on community voting to pick the top 10 chapters is a terrible method for narrowing down the contest's first round winner. It gives early entries a distinct advantage, and (sorry Nash) with all due respect to early entrants, I think authors who wait until the last day to post their chapters in order to rewrite, rewrite, and rewrite (submitting a better work rather than a faster work), should not be penalized or have to fight the odds to be considered. That being said, I get that there's a serious issue with narrowing down the number of entries for the judges to consider without overtasking them. I realize it's too late for the current contest, so I have a few suggestions for the next contest that would not require any re-coding and limit the burden on judges without relying too much on community voting to determine the quality of a piece.

1) Rather than automatically enter every story published from a certain date into the contest, require that the stories be published as links from a specific forum or chapter. (Similar to how entrants for chapters 2-5 will have to be posted as links from the winning chapter 1.) Instead of 100+ default entries, there will only be entries that the author feels are worthy of being judged - and the author is putting his reputation on the line as to what he/she considers to be his/her quality work. Looking at the current entries, it looks like lots of these folks didn't even realize they were entering a contest. (At least I hope so.)

2) Set a 1000 minimum word count. There are a large number of currently eligible chapters that don't come close to this. With apologies to our terser authors, if you are trying to launch a sustainable story for 5 chapters, you need to put in at least 1000 words. Otherwise, don't waste our time.

3) Only allow two entries per author (not including revisions). If as an author you can't figure out which of your 15 "chapters" are your 2 best ones, sorry but you're not likely to win anyway. You get to revise as often as you like, letting the judges know which revisions you'd like considered as final.

I dislike community voting for all the reasons people have stated here. It's too easy to cheat or sabotage. It's arbitrary and depends too much on factors like timing, self-promotion, and how many fans an author has on the site. I just don't find it to be a fair system, and the fact that it's the only method currently available to whittle down the large number of contest entries is not enough to justify reliance on it. I think my suggestions would do a much better job of keeping the contest entries manageable.

All very good suggestions! I'll definitely pass them on. Thanks so much for taking the time to come up with these ideas.

You're saying he's bitter, yet you called him an idiot, among other things.

Also, making suggestions is one thing. Whining is another. I believe Nash was saying the whiners should leave, and I agree with him. Saying the system sucks does nothing. Calling people idiots does nothing but show you're a jerk. It seems like you're trying to work against people rather then with, and on a site like this, thats not the right attitude.
The creators of this site ask for suggestions often and listen to what we say. They can't cater to everyone.
In a debate, nobody ever wins by calling the other an idiot. Insulting others is not going to help your cause.

Dwayne~
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, I did want to address your comment: "If they don't have the time to read them, then do not have contests."

While you may feel this way, I'm sure that many of the users at SM don't. The contest certainly isn't "mandatory," so if you feel that it is completely unfair and ridiculous, no one is saying that you have to participate. You're more than welcome to skip the contest and simply use SM as the writing site it is.

Trust me Katrina I would love to do the contest, But if no one knows me, or they don't like my comments, then I have no chance to win. Therefore every submission must be read or the contest does not work. Why you cannot admit to this flaw is beyond me. I love the site for writing, that is why I am here, but I know I do not stand alone when I say that this flaw is major. It is not whinning, but to totally dismis stories with low scores or no scores, is wrong. To much work goes into peoples stories, for this to happen.
hire speed readers or seperate the stories into seperate groups and let each judge pick the best ones in there stack. Then they can consolidate down to the best (now even here some stories might not click and get thrown aside, so i don't know). But at least all stories will be voted on and read.
There is a suggestion but it has flaws too.
And why is my last comment hidden?

Dwayne~
At no time did I say that I don't see where you're coming from. I certainly do. In a perfect world, the few judges we have could read through ALL of the entries. But these judges are not being paid, and it would be out of line for us (as in the SM team) to require that they read ALL of the entries with zero pay. Also, there's only a certain amount of time in one day. I don't know about you, but I have a full-time job as well as a few other writing gigs that I am working on at all times. I can only assume that the judges are just as busy as I am.

I have been asking--begging, almost!--for suggestions to improve the contest. I've gotten some that are definitely being reviewed and discussed. Some of the other comments are simply pointing out the flaws without giving any solutions. We are looking for solutions to these issues.

It's easy to come up with a solution as in "hire speed readers"--StoryMash only has a certain budget to work with, and this is something else that has to be taken into consideration. At this point, voluntary judges are the best way for us to go, financially speaking.

I like your idea about separating the stories into sections and then having the judges "nominate" their favorites. I will definitely pass this on to the rest of the crew.

It seems as though your last comment has been voted-down by some StoryMash users, and that is why it's hidden.

Thanks for taking the time to comment.

I have to say I very much like Wolframs idea. At least make the people who want to be in the contest do something to get in the contest. Perhaps have a starting chapter that merely states "This is the starting chapter of contest x. Please add your entry to this chapter." This would cut down on the number of entries, and I also like Wolfram's minimum word count idea.

I like this idea about the starting chapter!!

As many of the suggestions above span considerably wider than Contest #6, I recommend this discussion be moved to the Forum under the Contest section.

Question - if we want to mash someone else's first chapter and have it count for the contest then should we wait till the second round begins?

never mind - saw the answer in the rules

Where did you see the answer to your question? That was my question too and I can't see it and I'm not appreciating that I have to scan through all sorts of comments not actually pertaining to the present contest to see if there is an answer here...

oops never mind I guess this is the forum for the rules so it makes sense that everyone is discussing them here, sorry... I do think it might be a good idea to have a forum just for the current contest and current rules because all of the other stuff is confusing (and a bit disheartening) for new people like me...

We actually do have a section in the forum for discussing contests and whatnot. Sometimes, though, commenting on a blog is more convenient, I think :)

Welcome to SM, and please don't be discouraged by some of these comments!

This might be beating a dead horse, and it might be too late too change the rules, but I feel I really need to voice my grievance of only the top ten stories rated by judges. Currently, there are five pages of "entries" in the current contest. After page three, there are many stories that are rated 3.0; this tells me that no one has read their work, so the best piece of work might not even get a once over, because established writers that already have "fans" knock the unheard stories from having any chance to compete.

I completely understand. This is just one reason that we're asking for suggestions on how to improve.

You can vote peoples comments down and have them dissapear, how very totalitarian. I like that. If I don't like what someone says then I can make them dissapear. Put them in cement and throw them in the river.

UE~
See my above comment to Dwayne. And you'll notice that I didn't say "yes, sir" once.

Excuse me--see the "below" comment.

Dwayne~
It's one of the features of the site that have been discussed in many different forums, including the radio show.

The ability to down-vote comments comes into play so that myself and others on the SM team are not forced to censor comments. In the past, there have been complaints about derogatory comments and requests for that user to be banned from the site and/or censored. Instead, we allow the community as a whole to decide which comments are beneficial and which are not.

I'd like to add my 2 cents. I think it would be easier to have a designated post sight for all entires. This would allow us to weed through thousands of submissions, many of which may not have been posted with the intention of entering the contest. Especially since the contest spans such a long period of time. It might be better to give writiers a heads up regarding an upcoming contest so that we can work in draft mode and give us maybe a 2 week timeframe to post the final submissions. I know I do not personally have the time or energy to read every post on this site submitted over th time period alloted and can't imagine that anyone has. That being said, I think that out of respect for fellow contestants that everyone posting a story in the contest should be required to rate and comment on every other entry. This gives each entrant the advantage of having his or her piece evaluated equally. By the way, are re-writes of older works allowed? I am thinking they are not, since they have would have an original post date previous to the contest begin date....but I would love to enter a revision. Let me know. No worries if I can't. ;)

Thanks so much for the comment/suggestion!

I'm checking regarding the revising an older-posted story....I'm just not sure. But I'll definitely let you know ASAP.

Gracia, Bella!

I think that's a good idea; it would be on honor system unless the site designers can whip up a program to enforce it. Additionally, if writers are restricted to one submission per contest period, it "might" make the numbers more manageable.

Good suggestions!

No, re-writes of older works that were published before the contest start date of October 20th are not allowed :)

no worries! just lazy, i guess! lol i am enjoying reading all of the other entries way too much to stop and write, anyway! lol

In alignment with my earlier comment, If you give us time to work up the stories ahead of time, we post during a specific time and veryone entering has to rate each entry, maybe you can give us a few days post entry deadline to read and rate last minute entries, so that everyone has a fair shot at making the top ten. THEN, after that, the judges can come in and rate the the top ten. Just an idea.

Oh! My apaologies....I read too fast an thought that the entry deadline for the first chapters spanned all the way out to Dec 29th...which is actually the end date for the entire contest! Anyway, I think my suggestions may help.

So, if I have two stories in the top 10, and they are rated the same, how do you pick which one to use?

The judges decide.

Hmm, it seems the last few comments have been voted down for no particular reason.

Hell, I guess they went right through the entire page of comments and voted down...Seems like the antics of an angry 12-yr-old.

I was just noticing another thing about the constest that rates in the "not so fair" catergory. Top ten... counting down ten stories... there are more stories of the same rank as the tenth entry.

Is it just by luck of the draw that two 3.7 scored stories make it in over the other 5? (or however the chips fall when the entry period concludes?)

Yeah, I wondered about that too. Especially because as of the deadline, we may end up with 15 stories voted as 4's....

I'll definitely pass this concern on to the team.

While the scores only show one decimal place, they extend further. One 4.0 may be 4.0375 while another is 4.0125. If more than one story has the same number of votes (say 2) and the same score (3.9), dunno how they handle that kind of tie. I suspect it'd go random if it had to select multiple stories with the same vote. (If it's alphabetical, I'm changing all my titles to "Aaron's Adventures.")

I wonder if the majority would prefer to win or prefer a "fair" contest. Fair is a subjective term. We're all under the same rules. As always, I recommend voting honestly and transparently, as that at least removes some of the confusion.

You are correct--the decimals definitely go further than what they're shown as.

Is there a suggested length for these chapters? I'm sorry if this was answered but I didn't see it below.

There is only a maximum character limit of 36000 right now. No other limits are in place.

Er...I think that there should be a few days after the deadline, for the people to read through All of the stories. That way those who put in their stories "last" wouldn't get punished, besides why should they? If the deadlines to a certain date, then it doesn't matter if u hand it in at the last day, as long as u hand it in before the deadline. Sorry nash, "procrastinating"/waiting to edit/for inspiration isn't against any rules, and thus those stories should be read...

This is something we're actually working on incorporating with the second round of this contest. Keep on the look out for a blog post that addresses this :)

I concur that there should be a way to enter stories into the contest, rather than just entering everything posted between two dates.

I did a quick look through of the posts since Oct 20, and several of the highest ranking ones are poems or other works that don't seem to lend themselves to the format of the contest (that is, they don't seem like they need more chapters - they are short stories, or rants, or even suggestions for how to improve StoryMash)

This is something that we're definitely working on. Thanks for taking the time to comment!

Exactly!

Wow - there are a lot of comments here, and I don't have time to read all of them...but from what I see there are two main themes that I agree with:
1) People are voting poorly on other people's stories in order to move theirs into the top 10 - I have seen all my rankings go down in the past couple of days.
2) There should be a way that other people can 'nominate' or 'submit' a chapter that they like into the pool for judging...or maybe once a story has three nominations it is entered - there are some chapters that I like and would give a high rating, but I don't think they are winning-chapter potential.

Those are two issues that we're addressing. Thanks!

Of course the solution will depend upon the winner chapter . Chapter grades are jumping like world markets . And, as you know, this is not a good sign .

If we miss the first round (as I have), is it still possible to compete in the other 4 rounds?

Absolutely! When the first round winner is announced, you can participate in round two by mashing that chapter.

Good luck!

So, who are the judges this tme around? I didn't see any new "faces" in the comments.

We're actually still trying to secure our judges.

Not a good thing to hear the day the winner is supposed to be announced! lol

Believe me--I'm just as frustrated as you all are! :) But we have secured our judges and the winner will be announced shortly.

How do you 'rate' comments? I don't get that. Also, how do you hide comments about your story? I see that alot.

Next to each comment, you'll see a number as well as two arrows--one up arrow and one down arrow. If you believe that a comment is particularly helpful, rate it up. If you think a comment is offensive, rate it down. :)

Okay, I'm brand new to this: is there a word limit or page limit to each chapter? And could you simply start a new story each week of the contest or are you expected to continue with the same one?

There is a 36000 character limit.

Yes, you are to continue the chapter that won the previous round. So if you want to participate in round two, you would need to continue "The Unknown."

I hope this helps!

yeah where do you send the entry?

Go to the "Contest" page (a link to this page is on the right hand table of contents) and read the previous chapter or chapters. Once you're caught up, simply add on to the last winning chapter in order to be eligible for the contest. For example, round two is closed as of today, I believe. Once the winner is chosen, you can add on to that chapter.

Where do I send my entry now that the contest has begun? I read the winning chapters, but didn't see anywhere to continue them? Am I just blind??!

At the bottom of the winning chapter's page, there is a button that says "Write Next Chapter." Simply click on this button to write the next chapter and to enter the next round of the contest.

Hi Sleepyspaghetti (great name!) You've probably figured this out but it's easier to write/edit your chapter in word format- or whatever you have on your pc- and then cut and paste it into the write the next chapter box- i wrote my first few entries using that little white box and got a migraine (lol) until someone clued me in.oops! Happy Writing!
Chloe